tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5190994177632420720.post3820756148174351254..comments2023-10-25T08:27:37.972-07:00Comments on Viridis Lumen: Will No One Rid Us of These Meddlesome Messiahs?Viridis Lumenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08097453038753328641noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5190994177632420720.post-68405322652144581082011-01-12T06:16:08.215-08:002011-01-12T06:16:08.215-08:00Anna I read the article and feel it gives no infor...Anna I read the article and feel it gives no information other than that he comes from a fairly dysfunctional family. It says he was referred onto a drug eduction programme for offenders with no history of violence or serious mental illness.<br /><br />The descriptors of his behaviour do suggest he is ill - and you may be correct in your diagnosis, but it is still your assumption rather than a medical fact. Schizophrenia in any case is a condition which normally comes in cycles rather than presents as a static, permanent condition and so to assume as you do that he is not influenced by what is happening around him is speculative in the extreme. In my original post, one of the points I was making was that in an atmosphere of extreme conflict-oriented rhetoric, some people may view this as the actual desire of the speaker - hence the example of King Henry - regardless of the speaker's actual intent. As such, those who venture into public life and discourse should consider carefully the impact of inflammatory rhetoric and actions such as Jesse Kelly's frankly bizarre stunt with firing guns as part of an election campaign.Viridis Lumenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08097453038753328641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5190994177632420720.post-75463821068907458402011-01-12T03:37:36.813-08:002011-01-12T03:37:36.813-08:00Please read this article. It explains the situati...Please read this article. It explains the situation quite well, and uses first hand sources:<br /><br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/us/12loughner.html?_r=1&pagewanted=printakwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01664999239044637512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5190994177632420720.post-41531067039699424112011-01-12T03:36:21.602-08:002011-01-12T03:36:21.602-08:00January 11, 2011
Police Say They Visited Tucson Su...January 11, 2011<br />Police Say They Visited Tucson Suspect’s Home Even Before Rampage<br />By JO BECKER, KIRK JOHNSON and SERGE F. KOVALESKI<br /><br />This article is by Jo Becker, Kirk Johnson and Serge F. Kovaleski.<br /><br />TUCSON — The police were sent to the home where Jared L. Loughner lived with his family on more than one occasion before the attack here on Saturday that left a congresswoman fighting for her life and six others dead, the Pima County Sheriff’s Department said on Tuesday.<br /><br />A spokesman, Jason Ogan, said the details of the calls were being reviewed by legal counsel and would be released as soon as the review was complete. He said he did not know what the calls were about — they could possibly have been minor, even trivial matters — or whether they involved Jared Loughner or another member of the household.<br /><br />A friend of Mr. Loughner’s also said in an interview on Tuesday that Mr. Loughner, 22, was skilled with a gun — as early as high school — and had talked about a philosophy of fostering chaos.<br /><br />The news of police involvement with the Loughners suggests that county sheriff’s deputies were at least familiar with the family, even if the reason for their visits was unclear as of Tuesday night.<br /><br />The account by Mr. Loughner’s friend, a rare extended interview with someone close to Mr. Loughner in recent years, added some details to the emerging portrait of the suspect and his family.<br /><br />“He was a nihilist and loves causing chaos, and that is probably why he did the shooting, along with the fact he was sick in the head,” said Zane Gutierrez, 21, who was living in a trailer outside Tucson and met Mr. Loughner sometimes to shoot at cans for target practice.<br /><br />The Loughner family released a statement on Tuesday, its first since the attacks, expressing — in a six-line document handed to reporters outside their house — sorrow for the losses experienced by the victims and their families.<br /><br />“It may not make any difference, but we wish that we could change the heinous events of Saturday,” the statement said. “There are no words that can possibly express how we feel. We wish that there were, so we could make you feel better.”<br /><br />The new details from Mr. Gutierrez about Mr. Loughner — including his philosophy of anarchy and his expertise with a handgun, suggest that the earliest signs of behavior that may have ultimately led to the attacks started several years ago.<br /><br />Mr. Gutierrez said his friend had become obsessed with the meaning of dreams and their importance. He talked about reading Friedrich Nietzsche’s book “The Will To Power” and embraced ideas about the corrosive, destructive effects of nihilism — a belief in nothing. And every day, his friend said, Mr. Loughner would get up and write in his dream journal, recording the world he experienced in sleep and its possible meanings.<br /><br />“Jared felt nothing existed but his subconscious,” Mr. Gutierrez said. “The dream world was what was real to Jared, not the day-to-day of our lives.”<br /><br />And that dream world, his friend said, could be downright strange.<br /><br />“He would ask me constantly, ‘Do you see that blue tree over there?’ He would admit to seeing the sky as orange and the grass as blue,” Mr. Gutierrez said. “Normal people don’t talk about that stuff.”<br /><br />He added that Mr. Loughner “used the word hollow to describe how fake the real world was to him.”<br /><br />As his behavior grew more puzzling to his friends, he was getting better with a pistol. Starting in high school, Mr. Loughner honed his marksmanship with a 9-millimeter pistol, the same caliber weapon used in the attack Saturday, until he became proficient at handling the weapon and firing it quickly.<br /><br />“If he had a gun pointed at me, there is nothing I could do because he would make it count,” Mr. Gutierrez said. “He was quick.”<br /><br />He also said that Mr. Loughner had increasing trouble interacting in social settings — during one party, for instance, Mr. Loughner retreated upstairs alone to a room and was found reading a dictionary.<br /><br />continued on next postakwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01664999239044637512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5190994177632420720.post-34363649013000440132011-01-12T03:29:25.752-08:002011-01-12T03:29:25.752-08:00"...but rather that he does not live in a vac..."...but rather that he does not live in a vacuum"<br /><br /><br />Yes, he does live in a vacuum. <br /><br />He is a paranoid schizophrenic who hallucinates, believes that his real life is in his dreams and that he if he can control his dreams, he can control his life. <br /><br />He believes he can set up an alternate utopian universe where he creates his own language, currency and time system. <br /><br />He believes that the government is using mind control on him. <br /><br />He fostered hatred for the congresswoman for more than three years because she failed to answer a question he asked her. The question was gibberish to her, but it made perfect sense to him and he has hated her for ignoring it. <br /><br />There is a lot of information out there on this man, and there is ZERO evidence that he was influenced by current political rhetoric. <br /><br />It's appalling that everyone immediately assigned blame because on pure speculation and their own political agendas. <br /><br />It's even more appalling that people are focusing on their twisted attempts to drive a false narrative instead of focusing on the heroes in the tragedy, the lives that were lost, and a city that is in mourning.akwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01664999239044637512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5190994177632420720.post-40105124921045418062011-01-12T00:01:37.922-08:002011-01-12T00:01:37.922-08:00Anna, I stand corrected on the numbers injured, wh...Anna, I stand corrected on the numbers injured, which is an unforgivable mistake on my part. Thanks for pointing it out.<br /><br />On culpability though, the point is not was he acting on behalf of anyone else, which is almost certainly not the case, nor that he is not mentally ill - I do put that forward as a possibility - but rather that he does not live in a vacuum. With the rhetoric of violence coming from many on the far Right mixed with the US gun culture, the whole point I am making is that political leaders need to accept the potential consequences of their rhetoric and style: that is, that someone, whether for mental health reasons or for other reasons, draws encouragement from their extreme conflictual approach to carry out some horrendous act such as this one.<br /><br />His own political views do appear to have moved increasingly to the Right over time, especially on aspects of the Constitution, but as much as anything the issue is whether or not in such a hostile political atmosphere, particular political views by default grant permission to people with mindsets like Loughner to see some people as valid targets.<br /><br />Consider this column: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jan/11/sarah-palin-presidential-hopes-arizona-shootings?INTCMP=SRCHViridis Lumenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08097453038753328641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5190994177632420720.post-91346437836072104852011-01-11T20:53:07.010-08:002011-01-11T20:53:07.010-08:00I'm sorry, but this column is filled with misi...I'm sorry, but this column is filled with misinformation, lies and stereotyping.<br /><br />The man is mentally ill. He's not right wing - he's never been right wing. He was liberal in high school and college, and he began his slide into another reality in 2007. He was carrying a grudge against the congresswoman since 2007, and that is why he shot her. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with current political agendas or rhetoric. <br /><br />Oh, and he shot with a semi-automatic pistol and he wounded 14, not 30.akwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01664999239044637512noreply@blogger.com